I am not supposed to be writing this thing anymore, but Eva emailed again, and I am thinking about continuing on this project, despite the fact that this site has become a toilet for dumping my thoughts and emails that I dont know what else to do with.
here is Eva's email - see for yourself. BTW - she still does not know about this wabi sabi site.
"Hi Andrew!
I looked again at your web-site and was really touched by the Boaz project. It would take me a day to write a bit more about what's on my heart.. I use to tell that my calling is to equip youth and children for revival.I have a group of friends between 17and 29 years old, about 10 of them, who are working with me to pray for and teach children and youth. We also s´pend lot of time together praying and eating and some traveling. I'm carrying a burden for the whole nation of Finland, and I'm longing to see young belivers to live their Chirtian life in meaningful bodies and not just play church.
Last Spring God showed me a vision while we were having a prayer meeting in a house church with the youth. It was of an old cellar where ther was many pillars. One of them was full of light and the Holy Spirit said to me:You are this pillar of light! the picture really encouraged me, as I often see my own weakness and frailty.
I will enclose two of my prayer letter from a camp where I was with these youth, one is from 2001 where God intervened to my life dramatically and the other is from 2002 where you can see how our team has developed.
After the Dawn conference and Reinhold's teachning, my friend who is also an elder in our church said:When will you be starting a youth church?I was a bit shocked but and said that it's not my intention. However, I realized that a youth church could be quite easily connected to a house church network.So I'm praying God would start something here in this town,whether I'm involved or not.
I got an invitation to the Dawn conference where you are leading one track and I'm praying whether I should come or not.
I got a new part-time job a a tutor in a Commercial College for three days a week, so it supports my calling to serve the next generation. I'm married, we have three children, 10,12 and 15 and we are on our mid 40-ies.
Hope your could hear my heartbeat between these lines.
together in this journey,
Eva"
Monday, December 16, 2002
Thursday, December 05, 2002
2 weeks has come and gone - and I did not write the book. SORRY! I tried. But some conferences that we were hosting in Prague came up out of nowhere and I was a busy man. I might try to relive my experiences and rethink my thoughts over the past few weeks. If I do, I will post them here. If not, I will write a book some other time and this will be another crashed attempt.
Thanks for reading and for all your suggestions. Sorry to disappoint. Maybe if you come back next week there might be some stuff here worth reading
andrew
Thanks for reading and for all your suggestions. Sorry to disappoint. Maybe if you come back next week there might be some stuff here worth reading
andrew
Wednesday, November 20, 2002
Email from Kandis D
"I am a senior in Dallas Texas in need of some help. My friend and I are working on our senior thesis project which relates to youth and Christianity. There are two products that we hope to produce as a part of our project, a magazine and a weekend club alternative which would also link to a program that would be implemented in churches. The weekend club alternative would give teenagers a weekend outlet that would not only keep them from taking part in worldly activities, but also enrich them while helping them build a closer relationship with God. It would resemble a Christian club but also include forums and discussions.
The magazine would be more of an entertainment magazine with a Christian twist. The only thing is that the cover story would never be on an artist but on controversial issues. Before we can begin working on these projects we have to do some research. We would appreciate any information or help as to what resources or research techniques that we may find helpful for our project. Any ideas as to how we can begin these programs and magazine would also be helpful.
Thank you,
KD, Dallas"
Hi Kandis
The Seminary you contacted referred this to me for a response.
I am glad you are in Dallas – there are lots of resources for you there in your own city.There are at least 5 Christian clubs in DFW – I know the people behind 3 of them. Out of these 3, Club 412 in Forth Worth would be the best one to contact, since they have told me that they want to help others get similar ministries going. They are Baptist and have a great club with 5 rooms. Talk to Stephanie and she will help. Tell her I sent you. I don’t have their contact info right now but it should be easy to track down.
As for the magazine, I have a friend in Austin who runs HM Magazine, which covers the alternative Christian music scene. They will be able to help – take a look at http://www.hmmag.com
Also look at http://www.lomag.ch for an excellent evangelistic mag in 3 languages. Their philosophy is similar to what you want to do –controversial issues and a Christian response - their latest issue is on sex and love and it includes a critique of Stanley Kubricks “Eyes Wide Shut”.
There are more resource connections on http://www.kingdomspace.com
Let me know if I can help further
Andrew Jones
Club Scenes and Church.
Churches looking like clubs. Or coffee shops. Why not?
My first attempt was in 1988 in Portland Oregon. I started a worship service for those on the fringe and unbelievers that wanted to come to church felt threatened by the strong and unusual culture of the main service.
The new service had the look and feel of a club, although more like a Comedy Club/Cafe than a music club. I spoke from a stool on the stage. People sat around small tables, getting up at anytime to get coffee and tea, and pastries. Not really radical, but for an Evangelical Free Church, in the 1980’s, it was a ginormous stretch for the elders and the older people. While I was on an extended trip to Australia, they pulled the plug and stopped the service. A decade later, God did the same thing to the church.
During the nineties I actually started a club. Club God Squad happened on San Francisco’s Haight Street every Friday night. We had the use of an old movie theatre that was owned by a Black Pentecostal church. We had Christian hard-core bands start at 9pm and rock the place. At 11pm the DJ’s started. Some of them were Christian and some were not. We enforced a no-profanity rule on the music. Everyone was cool with that. It was a God event and all the musicians supported the cause.. We managed to get on the Rave Hotline in San Francisco – which meant that at 2 or 3 am there would be a tidal wave of people coming out of nowhere to sample our club scene, and then they would be gone. Henna tattoos were given. Some Christian piercing artist set up shop at our events each week. Students from Golden Gate Seminary used to come and help out. The club never became a church. And when the Pentecostal church saw our street graphics on the wall, they refused to let us have the space.
These days I prefer the house party over the club scene. I like living rooms better than dance floors, and many cool clubs are putting couches in their spaces to look and feel more like living rooms anyway.
Houses rock. I think we are going back to houses. I know I am.
The best church experience I ever had was in my youth group days in Orewa, New Zealand. I was 16 and few months away from deciding to follow Jesus. I was one of those people that churches try to attract.
We met on Fridays at the Amos’s house. We lounged around on the carpet, or sat in comfortable chairs. There was hot chocolate, tea, good things to eat. Guitars came out. Bibles came out and we talked about eternal things. People prayed – I was too shy to pray aloud. We sang. We laughed. We laughed a lot. That was church for me.
On Sundays, we went to a cold building and sat on wooden benches. We listened to men give speeches. We sang the same songs that we sang on Fridays but without the joy and smiles and hot chocolate. We were not allowed to talk with each other during this time. I watched the clock.
I was told that what we did on Sunday was church and what we did on Friday was youth group. I believed them. And I spent the next 15 years of my life trying to make the Sunday experience a bit more like Friday. Now that I am older, I am going back to Friday. I think I will stay there.
"I am a senior in Dallas Texas in need of some help. My friend and I are working on our senior thesis project which relates to youth and Christianity. There are two products that we hope to produce as a part of our project, a magazine and a weekend club alternative which would also link to a program that would be implemented in churches. The weekend club alternative would give teenagers a weekend outlet that would not only keep them from taking part in worldly activities, but also enrich them while helping them build a closer relationship with God. It would resemble a Christian club but also include forums and discussions.
The magazine would be more of an entertainment magazine with a Christian twist. The only thing is that the cover story would never be on an artist but on controversial issues. Before we can begin working on these projects we have to do some research. We would appreciate any information or help as to what resources or research techniques that we may find helpful for our project. Any ideas as to how we can begin these programs and magazine would also be helpful.
Thank you,
KD, Dallas"
Hi Kandis
The Seminary you contacted referred this to me for a response.
I am glad you are in Dallas – there are lots of resources for you there in your own city.There are at least 5 Christian clubs in DFW – I know the people behind 3 of them. Out of these 3, Club 412 in Forth Worth would be the best one to contact, since they have told me that they want to help others get similar ministries going. They are Baptist and have a great club with 5 rooms. Talk to Stephanie and she will help. Tell her I sent you. I don’t have their contact info right now but it should be easy to track down.
As for the magazine, I have a friend in Austin who runs HM Magazine, which covers the alternative Christian music scene. They will be able to help – take a look at http://www.hmmag.com
Also look at http://www.lomag.ch for an excellent evangelistic mag in 3 languages. Their philosophy is similar to what you want to do –controversial issues and a Christian response - their latest issue is on sex and love and it includes a critique of Stanley Kubricks “Eyes Wide Shut”.
There are more resource connections on http://www.kingdomspace.com
Let me know if I can help further
Andrew Jones
Club Scenes and Church.
Churches looking like clubs. Or coffee shops. Why not?
My first attempt was in 1988 in Portland Oregon. I started a worship service for those on the fringe and unbelievers that wanted to come to church felt threatened by the strong and unusual culture of the main service.
The new service had the look and feel of a club, although more like a Comedy Club/Cafe than a music club. I spoke from a stool on the stage. People sat around small tables, getting up at anytime to get coffee and tea, and pastries. Not really radical, but for an Evangelical Free Church, in the 1980’s, it was a ginormous stretch for the elders and the older people. While I was on an extended trip to Australia, they pulled the plug and stopped the service. A decade later, God did the same thing to the church.
During the nineties I actually started a club. Club God Squad happened on San Francisco’s Haight Street every Friday night. We had the use of an old movie theatre that was owned by a Black Pentecostal church. We had Christian hard-core bands start at 9pm and rock the place. At 11pm the DJ’s started. Some of them were Christian and some were not. We enforced a no-profanity rule on the music. Everyone was cool with that. It was a God event and all the musicians supported the cause.. We managed to get on the Rave Hotline in San Francisco – which meant that at 2 or 3 am there would be a tidal wave of people coming out of nowhere to sample our club scene, and then they would be gone. Henna tattoos were given. Some Christian piercing artist set up shop at our events each week. Students from Golden Gate Seminary used to come and help out. The club never became a church. And when the Pentecostal church saw our street graphics on the wall, they refused to let us have the space.
These days I prefer the house party over the club scene. I like living rooms better than dance floors, and many cool clubs are putting couches in their spaces to look and feel more like living rooms anyway.
Houses rock. I think we are going back to houses. I know I am.
The best church experience I ever had was in my youth group days in Orewa, New Zealand. I was 16 and few months away from deciding to follow Jesus. I was one of those people that churches try to attract.
We met on Fridays at the Amos’s house. We lounged around on the carpet, or sat in comfortable chairs. There was hot chocolate, tea, good things to eat. Guitars came out. Bibles came out and we talked about eternal things. People prayed – I was too shy to pray aloud. We sang. We laughed. We laughed a lot. That was church for me.
On Sundays, we went to a cold building and sat on wooden benches. We listened to men give speeches. We sang the same songs that we sang on Fridays but without the joy and smiles and hot chocolate. We were not allowed to talk with each other during this time. I watched the clock.
I was told that what we did on Sunday was church and what we did on Friday was youth group. I believed them. And I spent the next 15 years of my life trying to make the Sunday experience a bit more like Friday. Now that I am older, I am going back to Friday. I think I will stay there.
The age of security. We feel it strongly this week in Prague, host city for the NATO SUMMIT 2002. It is as if the eyes of the whole world are on us. This week we are as newsworthy as we have been since the flood of August. This week, we have become a greater target for terrorism than perhaps we have ever been. 17% of Prague’s population have left the city, avoiding the publicity, the partial closure of the downtown city, and the possible risk of bombs.
NATO meets today in Prague. Dub’ya arrived this morning. 60 other Heads of State will be here for a few days of meetings. As well as 2000 delegates, 3000 journalists, and countless security teams and military personnel. One fighter jet will be fly over Prague every minute.
Around the world, people are talking about security and terrorism. In the last few days, three terrorists were arrested in London, one in Australia, and a man held hostage a schoolroom full of students in Spain.
We are living in a security age. Some say that the information economy gave way to the security economy, which might be one of the key industries driving the recovery. Churches are beginning to ask questions about security and their present structures.
The Indonesian churches, having experienced so much martyrdom and burning of churches, suspended public services during the year and moved to a house church structure. That does not mean they are immune from attacks, but it does mean they are not sitting ducks.
I feel we, as the church in the western world, are moving out of the place of assumed privilege to the corner of the room, or perhaps another room, a small room, where the other girls hang out. This is the place of Esther, the little orphan girl that joined the harem. The church no longer occupies the privileged place of Queen Vashti, who used her position to serve herself and not the people. We are moving from the Throne room to the Harem.
Look at difference.
Vashti was the only wife. Ester was one of the girls in the harem.
Vashti was the One. Esther was the postmodern Other
Vashti was a host. Esther was a guest.
Vashti enjoyed privacy. Esther was on show.
Vashti lived in safety. Esther lived in danger
Vashti had beauty. Esther had beauty and wise guidance from a mentor.
Vashti had luxury and ease. Esther fought for justice
Vashti gained privilege. Esther won favour.
Vashti thaw a private party for her selected friends. Esther threw a public celebration for her people.
Vashti could not enter the throne room without invitation. Esther entered boldly and was received.
Vashti lost her place. Esther saved her people
Vashti's parties never happened again. Esther’s party became a yearly festival.
Now is the time of Esther. The time to be beautiful. The time for the church to define itself not in terms of power and influence but of whether we are serving the poor and influencing the kings toward what is right.
NATO meets today in Prague. Dub’ya arrived this morning. 60 other Heads of State will be here for a few days of meetings. As well as 2000 delegates, 3000 journalists, and countless security teams and military personnel. One fighter jet will be fly over Prague every minute.
Around the world, people are talking about security and terrorism. In the last few days, three terrorists were arrested in London, one in Australia, and a man held hostage a schoolroom full of students in Spain.
We are living in a security age. Some say that the information economy gave way to the security economy, which might be one of the key industries driving the recovery. Churches are beginning to ask questions about security and their present structures.
The Indonesian churches, having experienced so much martyrdom and burning of churches, suspended public services during the year and moved to a house church structure. That does not mean they are immune from attacks, but it does mean they are not sitting ducks.
I feel we, as the church in the western world, are moving out of the place of assumed privilege to the corner of the room, or perhaps another room, a small room, where the other girls hang out. This is the place of Esther, the little orphan girl that joined the harem. The church no longer occupies the privileged place of Queen Vashti, who used her position to serve herself and not the people. We are moving from the Throne room to the Harem.
Look at difference.
Vashti was the only wife. Ester was one of the girls in the harem.
Vashti was the One. Esther was the postmodern Other
Vashti was a host. Esther was a guest.
Vashti enjoyed privacy. Esther was on show.
Vashti lived in safety. Esther lived in danger
Vashti had beauty. Esther had beauty and wise guidance from a mentor.
Vashti had luxury and ease. Esther fought for justice
Vashti gained privilege. Esther won favour.
Vashti thaw a private party for her selected friends. Esther threw a public celebration for her people.
Vashti could not enter the throne room without invitation. Esther entered boldly and was received.
Vashti lost her place. Esther saved her people
Vashti's parties never happened again. Esther’s party became a yearly festival.
Now is the time of Esther. The time to be beautiful. The time for the church to define itself not in terms of power and influence but of whether we are serving the poor and influencing the kings toward what is right.
Monday, November 18, 2002
Wednesday, November 13, 2002
Hello Rob
The web site you contacted a few days ago sent your questions over to me for another voice and some more input.
The good questions you ask are the same questions that I get constantly, though not usually from a church as huge and influential as yours.
I am Andrew Jones and I am a consultant for denominations and missions agencies regarding the emerging culture. One denomination calls me their "Post-modern Consultant" which is fine with me, although I prefer not to get boxed in by labels.
My comments do not necessarily reflect those of the web site. My words are sure to be more honest, ironic, and at my worst moments, sarcastic. But they come from a sincere desire to see the Kingdom of God downloaded into the hearts and minds and wounded lives of a generation that thirsts after him.
I am writing a longer response than I normally do, because I am writing a book emerging at over the next 2 weeks and want my writing to reflect real people and real issues, rather than what I want to write. Don’t worry - I will not mention the name of your church and I will call you Rob, instead of Steve Garnet, to protect your identity.
Let me try to answer your questions, regarding emerging church.
1. How is this new emerging church different in their expression of these values?
I believe the expression is always different for every generation, just as it has been for yours, and should be different if we are to keep the impact of the gospel the same and the worship meaningful. The expression needs to be appropriate and resonant for those expressing new life in Christ and those participating on the receiving end.
If the people are post-modern, then post-modern forms of expression (non-linear music, multi-media, liturgical forms, etc) are appropriate. If the people are modern, then bring out your best song leader and let everyone belt out some choruses or hymns. God likes both.
I believe the challenge is not to be modern, post-modern, or po-po-mo/emerging but rather to be APPROPRIATE, to empower the people of God to express themselves in the art forms and genres that are already a part of their world - give them the gospel in their own culture, teaching in their own language, worship with instruments they enjoy. Let them use words that emerge deep from their spirits in the forms that carry the meaning and mystery and depth. And we need to cease requiring them to run their expressions through a modern processor so that it can come out in a 3 point sermon or a cheesy poem or a 5 minute Christian jingle .
If we are striving for something, let us not focus on a particular expression of culture (post-modern, for example) but rather people. God has not called us to minister to post-modern people. He has call us to minister to people - for me to bless Mat and you to bless Mike and Mike's family and their brother-in-law and his girlfriend.
If we make ministry and its consequent forms to be people-appropriate the we will succeed every time. If we aim at a culture, even if we hit it, we will be missing it as soon as the culture changes or the people who wear that culture change.
I have watched churches and services build themselves around either culture (club/alternative/punk/rave) or age (youth/20 somethings) and then grind to a halt when the people they were serving moved on culturally or got older or had kids.
We should build churches and services around people. Start with them. Let them throw the party. Ask ourselves "What can we do to support, nurture, bless and water what God is doing in their life"
2. How does a church like [ours] reach this post modern generation?
The first place to start is to stop using military/advertising terminology to describe something that they see as highly relational, deeply intimate and mysteriously wonderful.
I have images of you coming out of the Army surplus store, dressed like Rambo. Don't tell me you use the word "Target Group" also!
Dude, the war is hasn't started yet. But it might start any day, and words like that make us sound threatening to people who don’t understand the ways of the Kingdom.
Your church has "cells", doesn't it?
Dang, those words really have to change.
When the language of the modern world (military, business, economics, science, advertising) is employed for spiritual uses, it can often carry overtones of conquest, colonization, and reduction of people into numbers or statistics.
Young people don’t want to be reached. They are nobody's target.
But I get what you are saying. Reaching out to people who are lost. That’s cool.
The basics don’t change. We love people, incarnate the good news of the Jesus Christ, dispense the power of God, interpret stories, baptise new followers and teach them to obey.
What we did before (or were supposed to be doing) has not changed. These principles will work in 20 years just as they did 200 years ago.
But we are coming out of a period - the flourishment of Christianity under The Enlightenment - of many successes (reading the Bible for ourselves, establishment of schools and hospitals) and many failures (religious wars, abuse of environment, fundamentalism, Marilyn Manson). These failures are close to home, especially to young North Americans, and we need to tread carefully around the wounds, practise evangelism in a minor key, help to correct misunderstandings and heal brokenness where we find it.
How do we do it??
If you really love the people God has brought into your care, you will help them find a way for their friends to enter in to that new life and receive all the gifts that God has for them.
If you really love your people, then you will spend time with them, hear their stories, feel their pain, watch their movies, and you will be able to bring the word of God to them in ways that connect on a deep and meaningful level, with words that are rightly chosen, with art that can sufficiently carry the weight of glory and impact that God intends.
That is what counts. Whether it is post-modern or not, honestly, who really cares?
3. Start another service for them to have ownership over?
No! Many churches do this (I did this when I was a pastor) and I think it is a bad idea. If a new service is going to happen successfully, it will be because they started it themselves from the very beginning and had personal involvement in every stage of the planning. If ownership does not start from the beginning, it will be half-baked and may never come about, forcing you to employ some loser-geek from Seminary who can maintain the service long enough to keep the deacons off your back. Sound like fun? I don’t think so either.
Ask yourself this question: Why would your young people want to run an institution that somebody else started when they can throw their own party? Let those who make the bed, lie in it.
If someone needs to start a service, and I am not necessarily recommending it, then let the young people do it themselves, with you or someone to guide them (let the older teach the younger) and interpret what they are doing back to the church. Allowing the young people this much ownership also carries the risk that what they come up with may be different than what you envision will happen. They may choose a home or club over the church building. They may choose a meal over a meeting, an open mike over a monologue, a rave-based event rather than a rock-based event, and that may be hard for your committees to swallow. Your youth pastor's job will be to interpret backwards to the church members and be a bridge.
The READY-MADE EXCELLENT SERVICE STRATEGY used to work in the 1980's, when hyper-moderns and yuppies demanded excellent products, and wanted someone to create a service that would reflect those values and 'service' their needs.
But the emerging culture would rather have something they are involved in creating, a work in progress, even if it isn't very good, than a hand-me-down in perfect condition.
Honestly, if it is not theirs to start with, it will take a lot of resources, time and guilt trips to get them attending (let alone running) a service that was decided by a committee of people that thought they were doing a good thing.
But, I understand the human dynamics of a big church, and how long it takes to transition, if indeed transition is even possible (or preferable - Jesus likes old wineskins also) and it may be that the first step is to have a service (worship "experience" is a better word) for them. If so, here are some thoughts:
Whatever you start has to be integrated into the fabric of the whole church.
Beware of the patch that washes off. Jesus didn’t think that the new patch on the old garment was a great idea. Personally. I have seen youth services and alternative services and post-modern services fail because of lack of integration or permission giving, or understanding.
Churches want to tell people they have a rockin' funky post-modern youth service. Young people, wanting to stay connected to the church family (and preferably not getting bored in the oldies service or cheesed in the contemporary service), might need a place to meet. Getting those two factors in bed together is the challenge.
Multi-media: Multi ways to abuse your artists.
I have also seen another evil under the sun. The abuse of artists and creatives for the sake of building a cool worship service. Creatives are used like outboard motors - we strap them on to the stage to drive the service in a funkier, more artistic manner, providing a show that we think will attract creative, post-modern people. But those people notice how the artists are made servants to the preacher, their art subject to the sermon, in a form of ecclesiastical colonialism, and they don’t come back. The artists themselves also leave, feeling used and bearing scars.
Ask not what your artists can do for your service, but what you can do for your artists.
Maybe helping your artists set up their own exhibition and inviting their friends will be of greater consequence for the Kingdom than squeezing their art in between the sermon and the offering.
4. Plant a church here in _____ with a younger anointed leader at some community center or large home?
Dude - I think you are hitting on something here. If you could only do one thing - do this. Help your young people start churches and bless them all the way through the process. It is far more effective than keeping it centralised and adding more services to your program. Multiply your ministry, don’t just add.
Why not 10 leaders starting 10 churches. Or 100 leaders starting 100 churches? "Scatter your seed to 7, even to 8, because you do not know which one will succeed." So says the Proverb.
Also, think about multiple leaders rather than the Big Man. The idea of leadership is thought of differently in the emerging culture. Generally speaking, a single leader is suspect, as well as being a canditate for either burnout or leading a cult. A group of leaders working in harmony will gain trust, and can minister better as a team. Yes, there will always be one leader who will have more to say, a first among equals, but that role may change through the growing process and one person who leads at one stage (gathering a crowd) give way to the next leader - think of it as tag-team leadership.
Teams are good. "A cord of three strands is not easily broken."
Go back to the Scriptures and you wont see single leader churches - you WILL find multiple elders. Would your church have a problem with you using the Scriptures to build an ecclesiastic structure like my post-modern friends are doing? Or do you think they would rather stay with church principles from Peter Drucker and keep their Bibles for their quiet times?
(Thats me being sarcastic and yet not repentant)
5. Keep them in the service…turn the lights down…light 100 candles…play a Gregorian chant CD…and recite liturgy?
(Just joking!)
You know what? Keeping them in the service sounds like a joke and might fly in the face of conventional thinking but it may be one path that very few people (except the Roman Catholics and Orthodox) have followed. The youth service may turn out to be a modern invention of seperation and disunity. Keeping everyone in may work . . . if their spirituality is not defined by the worship service in the same way as it was for boomers.
Also, I met a cool group of DJ's and artists in Dallas who told me they were staying at their old boring church and did not want to be a seperate identity. Sign of things to come?
Some of the extremely post-modern believers I know do not attend GenX/pomo/alt.worship/whatever services. Either they do not attend a "service" or they just go to the church where they feel at home, where they know people, where they are connected, even if it i the lamest service in the world.
Why?
Because they do not view the church as a distributor of good and services, or a provider of Hollywood style services.
They will put up with a lame service because relationships count more than performance on stage.
And if they are really creative, which most of them are, they don’t need a stage show to get them into the presence of God. They can enter in whenever they want and do so, sometimes, in spite of the worship service.
Which means that the ministry of the pastor has more to do with loving people than putting on a show.
Which brings me to my final word of encouragement:
LOVE YOUR PEOPLE.
That's where its at. Even in the post-modern world. Especially in the post-modern world
Lets keep the conversation going.
God bless you,
Andrew
The web site you contacted a few days ago sent your questions over to me for another voice and some more input.
The good questions you ask are the same questions that I get constantly, though not usually from a church as huge and influential as yours.
I am Andrew Jones and I am a consultant for denominations and missions agencies regarding the emerging culture. One denomination calls me their "Post-modern Consultant" which is fine with me, although I prefer not to get boxed in by labels.
My comments do not necessarily reflect those of the web site. My words are sure to be more honest, ironic, and at my worst moments, sarcastic. But they come from a sincere desire to see the Kingdom of God downloaded into the hearts and minds and wounded lives of a generation that thirsts after him.
I am writing a longer response than I normally do, because I am writing a book emerging at over the next 2 weeks and want my writing to reflect real people and real issues, rather than what I want to write. Don’t worry - I will not mention the name of your church and I will call you Rob, instead of Steve Garnet, to protect your identity.
Let me try to answer your questions, regarding emerging church.
1. How is this new emerging church different in their expression of these values?
I believe the expression is always different for every generation, just as it has been for yours, and should be different if we are to keep the impact of the gospel the same and the worship meaningful. The expression needs to be appropriate and resonant for those expressing new life in Christ and those participating on the receiving end.
If the people are post-modern, then post-modern forms of expression (non-linear music, multi-media, liturgical forms, etc) are appropriate. If the people are modern, then bring out your best song leader and let everyone belt out some choruses or hymns. God likes both.
I believe the challenge is not to be modern, post-modern, or po-po-mo/emerging but rather to be APPROPRIATE, to empower the people of God to express themselves in the art forms and genres that are already a part of their world - give them the gospel in their own culture, teaching in their own language, worship with instruments they enjoy. Let them use words that emerge deep from their spirits in the forms that carry the meaning and mystery and depth. And we need to cease requiring them to run their expressions through a modern processor so that it can come out in a 3 point sermon or a cheesy poem or a 5 minute Christian jingle .
If we are striving for something, let us not focus on a particular expression of culture (post-modern, for example) but rather people. God has not called us to minister to post-modern people. He has call us to minister to people - for me to bless Mat and you to bless Mike and Mike's family and their brother-in-law and his girlfriend.
If we make ministry and its consequent forms to be people-appropriate the we will succeed every time. If we aim at a culture, even if we hit it, we will be missing it as soon as the culture changes or the people who wear that culture change.
I have watched churches and services build themselves around either culture (club/alternative/punk/rave) or age (youth/20 somethings) and then grind to a halt when the people they were serving moved on culturally or got older or had kids.
We should build churches and services around people. Start with them. Let them throw the party. Ask ourselves "What can we do to support, nurture, bless and water what God is doing in their life"
2. How does a church like [ours] reach this post modern generation?
The first place to start is to stop using military/advertising terminology to describe something that they see as highly relational, deeply intimate and mysteriously wonderful.
I have images of you coming out of the Army surplus store, dressed like Rambo. Don't tell me you use the word "Target Group" also!
Dude, the war is hasn't started yet. But it might start any day, and words like that make us sound threatening to people who don’t understand the ways of the Kingdom.
Your church has "cells", doesn't it?
Dang, those words really have to change.
When the language of the modern world (military, business, economics, science, advertising) is employed for spiritual uses, it can often carry overtones of conquest, colonization, and reduction of people into numbers or statistics.
Young people don’t want to be reached. They are nobody's target.
But I get what you are saying. Reaching out to people who are lost. That’s cool.
The basics don’t change. We love people, incarnate the good news of the Jesus Christ, dispense the power of God, interpret stories, baptise new followers and teach them to obey.
What we did before (or were supposed to be doing) has not changed. These principles will work in 20 years just as they did 200 years ago.
But we are coming out of a period - the flourishment of Christianity under The Enlightenment - of many successes (reading the Bible for ourselves, establishment of schools and hospitals) and many failures (religious wars, abuse of environment, fundamentalism, Marilyn Manson). These failures are close to home, especially to young North Americans, and we need to tread carefully around the wounds, practise evangelism in a minor key, help to correct misunderstandings and heal brokenness where we find it.
How do we do it??
If you really love the people God has brought into your care, you will help them find a way for their friends to enter in to that new life and receive all the gifts that God has for them.
If you really love your people, then you will spend time with them, hear their stories, feel their pain, watch their movies, and you will be able to bring the word of God to them in ways that connect on a deep and meaningful level, with words that are rightly chosen, with art that can sufficiently carry the weight of glory and impact that God intends.
That is what counts. Whether it is post-modern or not, honestly, who really cares?
3. Start another service for them to have ownership over?
No! Many churches do this (I did this when I was a pastor) and I think it is a bad idea. If a new service is going to happen successfully, it will be because they started it themselves from the very beginning and had personal involvement in every stage of the planning. If ownership does not start from the beginning, it will be half-baked and may never come about, forcing you to employ some loser-geek from Seminary who can maintain the service long enough to keep the deacons off your back. Sound like fun? I don’t think so either.
Ask yourself this question: Why would your young people want to run an institution that somebody else started when they can throw their own party? Let those who make the bed, lie in it.
If someone needs to start a service, and I am not necessarily recommending it, then let the young people do it themselves, with you or someone to guide them (let the older teach the younger) and interpret what they are doing back to the church. Allowing the young people this much ownership also carries the risk that what they come up with may be different than what you envision will happen. They may choose a home or club over the church building. They may choose a meal over a meeting, an open mike over a monologue, a rave-based event rather than a rock-based event, and that may be hard for your committees to swallow. Your youth pastor's job will be to interpret backwards to the church members and be a bridge.
The READY-MADE EXCELLENT SERVICE STRATEGY used to work in the 1980's, when hyper-moderns and yuppies demanded excellent products, and wanted someone to create a service that would reflect those values and 'service' their needs.
But the emerging culture would rather have something they are involved in creating, a work in progress, even if it isn't very good, than a hand-me-down in perfect condition.
Honestly, if it is not theirs to start with, it will take a lot of resources, time and guilt trips to get them attending (let alone running) a service that was decided by a committee of people that thought they were doing a good thing.
But, I understand the human dynamics of a big church, and how long it takes to transition, if indeed transition is even possible (or preferable - Jesus likes old wineskins also) and it may be that the first step is to have a service (worship "experience" is a better word) for them. If so, here are some thoughts:
Whatever you start has to be integrated into the fabric of the whole church.
Beware of the patch that washes off. Jesus didn’t think that the new patch on the old garment was a great idea. Personally. I have seen youth services and alternative services and post-modern services fail because of lack of integration or permission giving, or understanding.
Churches want to tell people they have a rockin' funky post-modern youth service. Young people, wanting to stay connected to the church family (and preferably not getting bored in the oldies service or cheesed in the contemporary service), might need a place to meet. Getting those two factors in bed together is the challenge.
Multi-media: Multi ways to abuse your artists.
I have also seen another evil under the sun. The abuse of artists and creatives for the sake of building a cool worship service. Creatives are used like outboard motors - we strap them on to the stage to drive the service in a funkier, more artistic manner, providing a show that we think will attract creative, post-modern people. But those people notice how the artists are made servants to the preacher, their art subject to the sermon, in a form of ecclesiastical colonialism, and they don’t come back. The artists themselves also leave, feeling used and bearing scars.
Ask not what your artists can do for your service, but what you can do for your artists.
Maybe helping your artists set up their own exhibition and inviting their friends will be of greater consequence for the Kingdom than squeezing their art in between the sermon and the offering.
4. Plant a church here in _____ with a younger anointed leader at some community center or large home?
Dude - I think you are hitting on something here. If you could only do one thing - do this. Help your young people start churches and bless them all the way through the process. It is far more effective than keeping it centralised and adding more services to your program. Multiply your ministry, don’t just add.
Why not 10 leaders starting 10 churches. Or 100 leaders starting 100 churches? "Scatter your seed to 7, even to 8, because you do not know which one will succeed." So says the Proverb.
Also, think about multiple leaders rather than the Big Man. The idea of leadership is thought of differently in the emerging culture. Generally speaking, a single leader is suspect, as well as being a canditate for either burnout or leading a cult. A group of leaders working in harmony will gain trust, and can minister better as a team. Yes, there will always be one leader who will have more to say, a first among equals, but that role may change through the growing process and one person who leads at one stage (gathering a crowd) give way to the next leader - think of it as tag-team leadership.
Teams are good. "A cord of three strands is not easily broken."
Go back to the Scriptures and you wont see single leader churches - you WILL find multiple elders. Would your church have a problem with you using the Scriptures to build an ecclesiastic structure like my post-modern friends are doing? Or do you think they would rather stay with church principles from Peter Drucker and keep their Bibles for their quiet times?
(Thats me being sarcastic and yet not repentant)
5. Keep them in the service…turn the lights down…light 100 candles…play a Gregorian chant CD…and recite liturgy?
(Just joking!)
You know what? Keeping them in the service sounds like a joke and might fly in the face of conventional thinking but it may be one path that very few people (except the Roman Catholics and Orthodox) have followed. The youth service may turn out to be a modern invention of seperation and disunity. Keeping everyone in may work . . . if their spirituality is not defined by the worship service in the same way as it was for boomers.
Also, I met a cool group of DJ's and artists in Dallas who told me they were staying at their old boring church and did not want to be a seperate identity. Sign of things to come?
Some of the extremely post-modern believers I know do not attend GenX/pomo/alt.worship/whatever services. Either they do not attend a "service" or they just go to the church where they feel at home, where they know people, where they are connected, even if it i the lamest service in the world.
Why?
Because they do not view the church as a distributor of good and services, or a provider of Hollywood style services.
They will put up with a lame service because relationships count more than performance on stage.
And if they are really creative, which most of them are, they don’t need a stage show to get them into the presence of God. They can enter in whenever they want and do so, sometimes, in spite of the worship service.
Which means that the ministry of the pastor has more to do with loving people than putting on a show.
Which brings me to my final word of encouragement:
LOVE YOUR PEOPLE.
That's where its at. Even in the post-modern world. Especially in the post-modern world
Lets keep the conversation going.
God bless you,
Andrew
Tuesday, November 12, 2002
The Wabi Sabi of The Global Emerging Church.
By Andrew Jones
November 12, 2002
Introduction
In Tennesee, people are cleaning up after the tornados. In California, Christians are exploring the decency breaking boundaries of Eminem’s new movie “8 Mile”. In Texas, Baptists are voting on whether to adopt the proposal of a new mission structure called the World Mission Network. Jessica, my PA is there. Manning a booth for the Emerging Church Network.
Why is she not here in Prague, helping me?
In Finland a girl (lady?) named Eva is awaiting a reply from Tall Skinny Kiwi. She asked him in an email sent yesterday, if he has written a book. He, I mean “I”, have not written a book, and was going to tell her that yesterday. However, having slept on the mattress, ah . . . matter, I have decided to tell her that I am INDEED writing a book. Right now. I hope it will be written in two weeks, printed a week after that, and be ready within the month. Tall order, perhaps. But worth a shot. Because after two weeks, I probably wont feel like writing a book. And Eva will give up waiting for my reply.
I am going to write a book. Quickly, with freshness, without the paralysis of perfectionism that has hindered my previous attempts. Without the fear of not finishing. Without the worry of who will edit it to make me sound profound and competent. Without the worry of who will distribute it, market it, push it, sell it, read it.
I am going to write a book.
I have already started to write a book.
I am, in actual fact, writing the book, even as I write.
I feel wonderful, in a freed up, I-can-do-it, stuff-you-all kind of way.
In writing my book, I am aware of a number of taboos that I am breaking.
1. The ghost of Ray Steadman. “Don’t publish until you’re 40” cried the late Ray Steadman, pastor of a large church in Peninsular, Ca. Or was it Pennsylvania? These words have been haunting me for about 15 years, or at least as long as I have been planning to write a book. They haunt me now. I am not yet 40. Will I write something that I will regret later? Will I experience a mind-shattering paradigm shift in a few years that will make me wish I had not written a book at my immature age of 39. Will it put me on a mission to hunt down all my published books so I can remove them from the pubic eye – like John Macarthur Jr. did with his first (and prematurely) published book – thus reinforcing the wisdom of Ray Steadman?
2. The nice people at Zondervan Publishing, who took me out for a meal (and paid), told me that they would be glad to publish a book of mine if I ever got myself together enough to sit down and write one. I told them it was highly unlikely, given my advanced stages of ADD - Attention Deficit Syndrome – which I have not exactly been diagnosed for, neither do I know anything about, for the two pathetic reasons that :
a)I do not have time to go to the doctor and
b)I can not sit still long enough to read anything about ADD
Perhaps the Doctors who write ADD self-evaluation documents should consider making a multi-media version for people who get bored easily.
3. What was I saying?
4. Oh yes – Zondervan. I hope they are not upset at me for self publishing this book. Or the people at Youth Specialties/Emergent who also asked me for a book and me, in my benevolent state of mind, said “YES”, and even agreed to a submission date – next month – It is probable that one day I will write a more scholarly, well thought out, book of a mature nature - a book that could easily sit on the bookshelf of a Christian bookstore in Tulsa, Oklahoma, bringing glorious joy to the readers thereof, a book written in the current Christian dialect, and therefore not containing words like “Wabi Sabi”, but this is not THAT book. Still, I feel a little guilty for writing it while, in the cold of Grand Rapids, Paul (chief editor at Zondervan) sits at his desk every day, EVERY BLOODY DAY, and asks himself the same question that he asks himself everyday, that question being . . .”When will that Tall Skinny Kiwi write his book?”
Meanwhile, in an even more northerly and ungodly freezing climate, that of Minneapolis, Doug Pagitt, bearing the unnecessarily long and tedious title of Emergent’s “Book Acquisitions And Official Deal Cutting Person for Young Emerging Leaders Who Want To Write A Book About Christian Ministry In The Post-modern Context”, (BAAODCPFYELWWTWABACMITPC for short) is braving the biting winds that sweep snow blankets over the long hidden pathway leading underground to his mail box, his empty mailbox, cursing under his frozen breath that hangs in the sub-zero hell of a weird B-grade sci-fi flick gone haywire, a post-nuclear freak storm of quasi-Armageddon paranoia, cursing the fact that, 35 years ago, God (or maybe Satan) endowed him with feet that would grow to a ridiculous size 15, cursing, above all else, since here lies the cause of all these diabolic anomalies that plague humankind, at least in his suburb of Edina, that Tall Skinny Kiwi, that Tall Skinny SLACKER Kiwi, who said he would submit his book by the end of the year . . .
And he repeats mantra-fashion the precise Quote:
“I will submit my book by the end of the year”
Tall Skinny Kiwi, in a serious conversation with Doug Pagitt in St. Louis, Missouri, April, 2002.
. . .but Tall Skinny Kiwi
… has in fact
. . . not!
5. I am just now reminded of another disappointed publisher, who, upon receiving a peace offering of this book, soon to be published by myself, will probably punch me in the stomach … no! . . .she is German and will therefore slap my face with her leather gloves. She will slap me for two reasons:
a) Because I never submitted my book to her, and
b) Because I unfairly stereotyped Germans as 1940’s leather-glove-swinging face-slappers.
Kirsten Hack, of Down-To-Earth Publishing in Berlin, Germany, has been waiting for my book for over a year. Last year I emailed some quick thoughts that I had typed into my white I-Book while waiting for a plane in London Heathrow.
This, I thought, would be the beginning of a book.
Kirsten thought so also.
This is why she edited my thoughts.
This is why she made such helpful comments about what I had written.
This is why she suggested how to build those thoughts into a book. Into a few books, actually. I had so many different thoughts that she suggested I write a number of books for different audiences.
It was great advice.
I was delighted.
Exhilarated.
My life’s purpose came together for a brief moment.
We were drinking coffee at a funky Berlin café, in the cultural swirl of east-kissing-west post-communist chic. We were discussing my book. Or book(s). Books which might never happen. Or maybe what I am writing is one of those books but she will only publish the German version.
Assuming that the Germans will want to read this. Which I don’t because it is not organized in a very German way. In a ‘Modern German’ way, I mean, as opposed to the more ‘post-modern German’ way which one sees in watching Zwei music television, with its non-linear video progression, and certainly in the German DJ culture, where post modernity is reflected in the sampling, re-mixing, of the German club scene, itself a uber-cool post-modern icon.
How does one get the two little dots on top of the "u" on the word "uber". Someone help me out - or my book may not see the light of day.
Enough for today. I need to paint my studio. This has taken me one hour, plus 10 minutes to set up the web site. At this rate. I think I could actually write this book.
By Andrew Jones
November 12, 2002
Introduction
In Tennesee, people are cleaning up after the tornados. In California, Christians are exploring the decency breaking boundaries of Eminem’s new movie “8 Mile”. In Texas, Baptists are voting on whether to adopt the proposal of a new mission structure called the World Mission Network. Jessica, my PA is there. Manning a booth for the Emerging Church Network.
Why is she not here in Prague, helping me?
In Finland a girl (lady?) named Eva is awaiting a reply from Tall Skinny Kiwi. She asked him in an email sent yesterday, if he has written a book. He, I mean “I”, have not written a book, and was going to tell her that yesterday. However, having slept on the mattress, ah . . . matter, I have decided to tell her that I am INDEED writing a book. Right now. I hope it will be written in two weeks, printed a week after that, and be ready within the month. Tall order, perhaps. But worth a shot. Because after two weeks, I probably wont feel like writing a book. And Eva will give up waiting for my reply.
I am going to write a book. Quickly, with freshness, without the paralysis of perfectionism that has hindered my previous attempts. Without the fear of not finishing. Without the worry of who will edit it to make me sound profound and competent. Without the worry of who will distribute it, market it, push it, sell it, read it.
I am going to write a book.
I have already started to write a book.
I am, in actual fact, writing the book, even as I write.
I feel wonderful, in a freed up, I-can-do-it, stuff-you-all kind of way.
In writing my book, I am aware of a number of taboos that I am breaking.
1. The ghost of Ray Steadman. “Don’t publish until you’re 40” cried the late Ray Steadman, pastor of a large church in Peninsular, Ca. Or was it Pennsylvania? These words have been haunting me for about 15 years, or at least as long as I have been planning to write a book. They haunt me now. I am not yet 40. Will I write something that I will regret later? Will I experience a mind-shattering paradigm shift in a few years that will make me wish I had not written a book at my immature age of 39. Will it put me on a mission to hunt down all my published books so I can remove them from the pubic eye – like John Macarthur Jr. did with his first (and prematurely) published book – thus reinforcing the wisdom of Ray Steadman?
2. The nice people at Zondervan Publishing, who took me out for a meal (and paid), told me that they would be glad to publish a book of mine if I ever got myself together enough to sit down and write one. I told them it was highly unlikely, given my advanced stages of ADD - Attention Deficit Syndrome – which I have not exactly been diagnosed for, neither do I know anything about, for the two pathetic reasons that :
a)I do not have time to go to the doctor and
b)I can not sit still long enough to read anything about ADD
Perhaps the Doctors who write ADD self-evaluation documents should consider making a multi-media version for people who get bored easily.
3. What was I saying?
4. Oh yes – Zondervan. I hope they are not upset at me for self publishing this book. Or the people at Youth Specialties/Emergent who also asked me for a book and me, in my benevolent state of mind, said “YES”, and even agreed to a submission date – next month – It is probable that one day I will write a more scholarly, well thought out, book of a mature nature - a book that could easily sit on the bookshelf of a Christian bookstore in Tulsa, Oklahoma, bringing glorious joy to the readers thereof, a book written in the current Christian dialect, and therefore not containing words like “Wabi Sabi”, but this is not THAT book. Still, I feel a little guilty for writing it while, in the cold of Grand Rapids, Paul (chief editor at Zondervan) sits at his desk every day, EVERY BLOODY DAY, and asks himself the same question that he asks himself everyday, that question being . . .”When will that Tall Skinny Kiwi write his book?”
Meanwhile, in an even more northerly and ungodly freezing climate, that of Minneapolis, Doug Pagitt, bearing the unnecessarily long and tedious title of Emergent’s “Book Acquisitions And Official Deal Cutting Person for Young Emerging Leaders Who Want To Write A Book About Christian Ministry In The Post-modern Context”, (BAAODCPFYELWWTWABACMITPC for short) is braving the biting winds that sweep snow blankets over the long hidden pathway leading underground to his mail box, his empty mailbox, cursing under his frozen breath that hangs in the sub-zero hell of a weird B-grade sci-fi flick gone haywire, a post-nuclear freak storm of quasi-Armageddon paranoia, cursing the fact that, 35 years ago, God (or maybe Satan) endowed him with feet that would grow to a ridiculous size 15, cursing, above all else, since here lies the cause of all these diabolic anomalies that plague humankind, at least in his suburb of Edina, that Tall Skinny Kiwi, that Tall Skinny SLACKER Kiwi, who said he would submit his book by the end of the year . . .
And he repeats mantra-fashion the precise Quote:
“I will submit my book by the end of the year”
Tall Skinny Kiwi, in a serious conversation with Doug Pagitt in St. Louis, Missouri, April, 2002.
. . .but Tall Skinny Kiwi
… has in fact
. . . not!
5. I am just now reminded of another disappointed publisher, who, upon receiving a peace offering of this book, soon to be published by myself, will probably punch me in the stomach … no! . . .she is German and will therefore slap my face with her leather gloves. She will slap me for two reasons:
a) Because I never submitted my book to her, and
b) Because I unfairly stereotyped Germans as 1940’s leather-glove-swinging face-slappers.
Kirsten Hack, of Down-To-Earth Publishing in Berlin, Germany, has been waiting for my book for over a year. Last year I emailed some quick thoughts that I had typed into my white I-Book while waiting for a plane in London Heathrow.
This, I thought, would be the beginning of a book.
Kirsten thought so also.
This is why she edited my thoughts.
This is why she made such helpful comments about what I had written.
This is why she suggested how to build those thoughts into a book. Into a few books, actually. I had so many different thoughts that she suggested I write a number of books for different audiences.
It was great advice.
I was delighted.
Exhilarated.
My life’s purpose came together for a brief moment.
We were drinking coffee at a funky Berlin café, in the cultural swirl of east-kissing-west post-communist chic. We were discussing my book. Or book(s). Books which might never happen. Or maybe what I am writing is one of those books but she will only publish the German version.
Assuming that the Germans will want to read this. Which I don’t because it is not organized in a very German way. In a ‘Modern German’ way, I mean, as opposed to the more ‘post-modern German’ way which one sees in watching Zwei music television, with its non-linear video progression, and certainly in the German DJ culture, where post modernity is reflected in the sampling, re-mixing, of the German club scene, itself a uber-cool post-modern icon.
How does one get the two little dots on top of the "u" on the word "uber". Someone help me out - or my book may not see the light of day.
Enough for today. I need to paint my studio. This has taken me one hour, plus 10 minutes to set up the web site. At this rate. I think I could actually write this book.
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